I was a bit schocked by the statement "...although Finnish girls generally do slightly worse than boys." because nowadays in Finland there is a big discussion about the schools being too "girly", that the subjects are thought in a way that only girls can understand and learn. That's why I have thought that girls do better in exams. At least in the comprehensive school. In high school the results begin to be more equal, largely because only the "wise" boys go to high schools.

A very minor quibble -- so minor that no Finns have bothered to mention it yet! -- but the city mentioned in the article is spelled Jyväskylä. I know times are tough in the newspaper business, but can't the Post afford a few umlauts?

Looks like someone wanted to use this medium for local politics. I wish you'd strive for larger picture on issues like this.

Your comment about the grade structure in Voionmaa school is a little confusing. I've lived my whole life in Jyväskylä, and as long as I know, every school in here (which teaches 7th to 9th graders) offers students to "...take courses at their own level, have many choices about what to take". There are some obligatory courses but otherwise one can choose pretty freely what he or she wants to study.

I can be wrong but as long as I can remember, it was like that at least six years ago.

And, it's a bit too easy to blame "envy is at work" or that opponenets of your view act upon jealousy or need of revenge.

I know, that in language of English you dont use ä and ö or other Nordic letters, but can you just put them in names? For example, "Jyvaskyla" is "Jyväskylä" etc.

I remember this "school system renowal" the same way as Johannes Munter does, and it is not only in Jyväskylä, it is today in every school in Finland.
As an aupair in Maryland (right next to DC boarder) I've seen the differences between Finnis and American schooling, and it makes me appreciate the Finnish way more. Still, as always, there is some things that need to change etc, but nothing is perfect.

The Finnish education system sounds similar in a lot of respects to the German one, which also separates students into educational paths for vocational/trade schools and university.

Perhaps what they are doing right is targeting their educational resources better. For those that have the ability and desire, they will educate them through a high school diploma/university degree. For those who don't have either the ability or interest, they get sent to an appropriate vocational school. So in the end, everybody leaves the system with a basic education and viable job skills or a higher education.

In this country, we try to push everyone through 12 grades of classroom based education. Not everyone is cut out for that, as reflected in our drop-out rates. What sort of drop-out rate does Finnland have?

While money may not be everything, it certainly affects the quality of education. I suspect the disparity in funding/access to resources between a school in a wealthy area vs. a school in a poorer area in Finnland is no where near what it is in the U.S. Do Finns decide where to buy a house based on the school district like in the U.S.?

Part of the problem is the educational funding mechanism in much of the U.S. based on property taxes. It tends to perpetuate the cycle of poverty. Grow up in a poor neighborhood and you often get a low quality education.

it is even worse elsewhere; I know students who are 7th graders and who go to a school 50 miles away.

Oh, and that dame e-mail address is still not working...

Dear Mr Kaiser,

Thanks very much for the series on Finland. Since my wife is
Finnish and we have spent a great deal of time living there, I have seen
firsthand the excellent school system (each of my three children went to
school there for a year at various times) and I've studied the healthcare
system (which I assume you'll be writing on later in the series), so I
commend your series and look forward to the rest of it.

I do, however, want to suggest that very few Finns would agree
with the assessment in the timeline that the Soviet troops "easily
defeat[ed]" Finns in the 1939 - 40 "Winter War." The Soviet Union--seeing
the coming war with Germany and noting that the [old] border was only a few
dozen miles from the former Leningrad--thought it could easily invade and
occupy Finland before fighting broke out with Germany, thus barring easy
German access through Finland. But the Soviet Union chose one of the
coldest winters in years to invade, and the heavily outmanned Finns (moving
through their own familiar territories on cross-country skis in famous white
uniforms) inflicted heavy damages on the Soviets and were able to prevent
the occupation. It is true that the Finns were formally defeated, but they
ceded only land in the east of Finland (where my father-in-law was born and
reared) and prevented a disastrous occupation.

As a few older Finns about their Winter War, and I suspect
you'll get some interesting stories.

David Hilfiker MD
Washington DC

PS: The email address findlanddiary@washingtonpost.com isn't working.

About the school districts.

Nowadays in Finland the parents basically have the right to put their kids in any school in the same town. That means that it doesn't really matter anymore in which neighbourhood people live. But people usually don't use this right and put their kids in the nearest school available...sometimes that school can be tens of kilometres away.

For high schools and vocational training you have to apply for. And that means that you can go in any school in the country. But the standards of high schools in the same city can vary, so there's a lot of competition to the "best" one. Basically the curriculum is same in the high schools, but some have better teachers, better students, more money, etc...

just started reading this at the Jyväskylä entry but I must comment on the Winter War and the Continuation War.

The Finns fought the Russians to a standstill - the Russians had to bring troops from Central Asia as the others were too demoralised to fight. A long knife is still called a Finnish knife in Russian, because of the effective use made of it to dispatch Russian troops - it was much quieter to drop out of a tree and slit the enenmy's throat and did not waste precious ammunition.

Alas it is a character flaw that we don't like to see others succeeding. We justify it by saying that we should all be equal.

Is the author or principal implying that the school board is closing down the school, just cause they're jealous of the principal? Give me a break. Now I think government is corrupt, but not THAT corrupt to do such a thing.

Finland has a very sparse population. Up until recently, there was a need for a school in every little village along with other essential services. But thanks to the advancements in transportation, the fact that more Finns now have cars, migration to bigger cities, and an extremely expensive welfare state - Finland no longer needs (or has the funds) these services in smaller towns. So places close.

- Phil
www.finlandforthought.net

Living in Jyväskylä and actively following politics I think I know something about the situation.

Proactive actions are needed to avoid financial disaaster. Continuing the way we now run Jyväskylä (knowing that population ages) will soon put us in the situation where financial costs exceed costs of operational economy. I would rather like to finance education of my children than put my money in interest charges.

Educational board has done good job in minimizing the effect of required budget cuts to the quality of education. One must remember that the amount of pupils in downtown Jyväskylä has come down and will continue shrinking. In this situation it would be absolute madness to keep the walls and cut the tuition.

Giving up buildings is a small fragment of much wider reorganization of education sector. Pointing out single effects without considering the rationale and other options is a bit populistic.

Talking about the reasons behind this particular action. It's definitely possible to find people who are a bit envious of the exceptional performance of Voionmaa. But I can't help that Erja Kosonen sounds a bit like conspiracy theorist to me when she makes a connection between giving up the buiding and the school being positively "too free" (in a country which is, together with scandinavian countries, at the liberal extreme in great many ways).

The Finnish Army "equipment" for the reserve troops in the outbreak of the Winter War was the "model Cajander" (after the defence minister of the 1930's) which consisted of a 1890 Moisin-nagant surplus rifle and a emblem for your hat. The "white uniforms" were bedsheets, and the rest of the "uniform" was your daily clothes.

Try for example www.winterwar.com for a detailed account of the "easy invasion".

Stalin, as an ally of Hitler had invaded Poland just a few months before. Finland was supposed to be "easier"...

Interesting how this public school is being shutdown, only to be replaced with a private upper-class Steiner school. So it's not like there isn't enough students to fill the classrooms in Jyväskylä.

- Phil
www.finlandforthought.net

Is Steiner really an upper-class school? I have quite a few friends who have been to Steiner schools and "upper class" is not the word I would use to describe them. "Eccentric" adn "off-beat", maybe. Definitely not "upper-class".

Noticed a link that lead here in (links in finnish)
http://www.jippii.fi/jsp/forum/thread.jsp?b=kielipolitiikka&t=34038&p=11
about town
http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=115&conference=1500000000000155&posting=22000000008583308

**
issues that Finns don't often confront openly
**
Who said so ? Yes they do, people can and do say whatever they want without need for political correctness. (Maybe upper classes tend to act differently but the vast majority is not upper class.) Not that it matters, those who make the decisions make the decisions they want to make.

**
Is Steiner really an upper-class school?
**
-steiner is not upper-class, maybe upper middle-class would be more appropriate, yet they have kids of almost all kinds, have worse results than state schools;
there also is some "christian school" in town, it too is funded by state

**
In this country, we try to push everyone through 12 grades of classroom based education. Not everyone is cut out for that, as reflected in our drop-out rates. What sort of drop-out rate does Finnland have?
**
About 1 in 10 does not go to high school or trade school after 9th grade. High schools have high drop-out rates, in one class (of 30-40 pupils, not all of age group in school), possible more than half drop out (and go to trade schools.)

**
I was a bit schocked by the statement "...although Finnish girls generally do slightly worse than boys."
**
They are far better.
Most boys go to trade schools. Most girls go to high schools.
Trade school does give something they call education but mostly they are totally useless and extremely expensive. They have good equipment, cost lots but boys do not learn much. Boys talk to each other and generally do their best to have a good time despite having to be at school. Most of them eventually go to work that has nothing to do with the education. Many also go to 2 or three trade schools as they try to find work.
High schools are underfunded and more academic than trade schools. Girls s**t up when the teacher talks. After them, girls go to universities and eventually get nice jobs in front of some office desk.

It should be noted that there is a strong movement towards american-style education with tuition fees and only the rich affording to educate their children. There are bureocrats with right-wing connections that keep proposing some sort of yearly fees to the universities and total cutting of student grants from the goverment, to be replaced with loans as a mean of sustenance for the students. (Banks must be happy about this.)

The Cygnaeus school is not being closed, it is being moved. The Steiner school already exists, it just has inferior premises, and this move would give it adequate ones. This is mainly a reshuffling of the game pieces to reduce the number of buildings that need to be kept up, though that is not the whole story.

I'm a little disappointed that you tell only one side of the story. Email-chat with a local politician, if you cannot find the time to meet one in person.

(I am a politically active local but I have not been involved with these decisions.)

People keep on saying university education is free in Finland.

Strictly speaking it's not. You do pay tuition, but it's so low that my American friends usually just stare at me when I tell them how much I paid for my MSc. degree.

The Government grants you get are to subsidise living costs and are not available to students with means to support themselves. Mainly Finnish university students support themselves by low interest rate government backed student loans.

My American wife went to school in the US and has about $100K in student loans (she has two masters). I went to school in Finland and have $200 (down from a total of maybe $2500) in student loans. Sure is nice :)

"Mainly Finnish university students support themselves by low interest rate government backed student loans."

Not anymore.

I'm enjoying the Finland diary very much, and thought I'd throw
in an idea. If you have yet to visit Kuopio, consider going to
Alahovi's Berry Winery: http://www.alahovi.com/english/. It is a
vineyard on a beautiful island just outside of Kuopio (you can
actually see the city from the island). During the winter, they just
drive across the lake to city but now you would have to take a ferry to cross over. You'll get a beautiful view of the city and you'll meet some pretty interesting people who put up with all odds and continue to make wine in Finland.

Good luck and thank you for writing such wonderful things about Finland.

Hi!

Thank You for the interesting Finland Diary!

In my opinion you should definitely extend your trip to Lapland. The best place to visit is a village called Inari (and I am not saying it only because it is my homevillage but) because it is a centre of the Sámi (Lappish) indigenous people in Finland. The Sámi Parliament, Sámi Museum, Sámi Radio and TV, Sámi Vocational School, Sámi Cinema Centre and Sámi kindergartens operate in Inari. (www.samediggi.fi
www.samimuseum.fi
www.yle.fi/samiradio
www.sogsakk.fi
http://www.siida.fi/skabma/800en.html
http://www.skr.fi/tl_kielipesa.shtm)

AND HURRY UP! "Ijahis idja", an indigenous people's music festival takes place in Inari this weekend. There are high quality concerts on Friday (featuring top Sámi artists and singers from the Nenets people in Siberia) and on Saturday (featuring young Sámi rappers and pop bands). Contact Ms. Annukka Hirvasvuopio if interested (annukka.hirvasvuopio-laiti@samediggi.inet.fi).

On Friday there is also a premier of short films and documentaries made by media students of the Sámi vocational school in Inari. Contact Ms Outi Korpilähde if interested (outi.korpilahde@sogsakk.fi).

For information in Finnish check: http://www.inarilapland.org/ijahis.htm

A good introduction to the Sámi culture can be found in: http://lotta.yle.fi/srwebanar.nsf/sivut/frontpage (the Sámi Radio website in English) and in: http://www.samediggi.fi/vanha/oktavuohta/en/index.htm (by Sámi Parliament)

Pirita (k70526(a)ky.hkkk.fi)

The story about these two school closings is dissapointedly told just from one point of a view. I'm sure there is a lot more behind this story than what is told in the text. School closings and movings happen all the time all over Finland and like in any other case, town and cities have their reasons and not everybody is going to be happy and agree with them. It's not like town of Jyväskylä is somehow evil and unfair...

Talking to the elite, admiring the facades, the travel documentary seems to be.

There are also such who cannot afford to go to a high school and the closure of one school does not greatly affect most peoples' peace of mind.

They are moving the school next to a vocational school. That is why they are making lots of noise against it. That is not mentioned anywhere but is the real reason behind the noise.

Lower classes attend vocational schools and naturally they want to keep a distance to the lower classes.

The reason Finland has a lower standard of living than western european countries is that those who go to higher education tend to be those whose parents had the most money. The unis are free but lower income area pupils are strongfully encouraged to attend vocational training instead of going high schools and thus be able to attend unis later. In other words, the more stupid you are, the more education you get, as traditionally those with money got it with muscle, not brains.

City of Jyväskylä is in reality known for one thing only: the annual FIA rally which used to be called "Jyväskylän Suurajot", not the cultural crap the elite likes to talk about. The city uses lots of its money to culture and other things that are out-of-limits for the multitude.

More taxes does not mean a fairer society. Finland is a good example of that.

As a student from Jyväskylä, I can say, it's not very good thing to close big schools, as Cygnaeus, and move Cygnaeus' High School away from the centrum. New spaces for that high scool are ment for 250 students, and there is 680 students in Cygnaeus High School. Stupid indeed. Jyväskylä saves about 28.000.000 € by not repairing Cygnaeus High School's building and by selling it's lot and by closing Cygnaeus' elementary school and mixing all the other schools that are working in Jyväskylä's 'School Central'. And then they built a new (big and expensive) railway -and busstation, allthough there was nothing bad in those old ones.

I really don't understand those men and women in the citycouncil.

I went to a Steiner school. The quality of education one recieves at such an institution is not equal to that which i have found present in the vast majority of Finns. Steiner schools, are founded on a very select group of principals. They don't exist to make each child that attends them as well informed and good in all things as they can be. Steiner lived at the same time as Hitler. They were very different in most respects but in some they were quite alike. For instance, both believed in an "ideal person" The Steiner schools are structured to turn out quite honestly speaking little conformist nazis. all alike in every way shape and form. They generally have the same teacher from first to eigth grade and early on that teacher chooses their favorite then the rest of the class tries to simulate in every respect that chosen child. The one good thing about Steiner schools, is their emphasis on art and music. Anyway, i may be american but i would never send my child to such an elitist disturbed institution that caters to the philosophy of Rudolf Steiner, a man who thought he was in psychic communication with the "Atlantians" (people from the lost city of atlantis) and that he could hold private "psychic" conversations with them in his head. It would be a travisty to shut down schools where students are doing so well and learning so much to put up these institutions that cater lunacy and i would know. I went to one. This is not good for the students of Finland.

Steiner is not a upper-class school, and definetly not a school for retarded. It's just a private school. They teach about the same things that they teach in public schools, just in a bit different way. In fact you can get in with an average of 5 (D), but they take students, who have motivation for studying, not just those, who are already good.

The comments about "lower class this, upper class that" are just insanely moronic bitter bitching that has no basis in reality.

The "lower class" doesn't go to the vocational school because they're lower class, but because a larger percentage of their parents just don't give a s*** about their kids' education. Naturally those kids do worse at school and do not get to go to high school like their "upper class" peers. I had plenty of kids like that in upper elementary school with me. Not one of them was particularly stupid, most of them just didn't give a s*** about school and their parents didn't make them care like mine did.

It is so ridiculously easy to get into high school in Finland that you really have to be REALLY bad at school or really WANT to go to vocational school instead of high school. Yes, some people do want to get in vocational schools even if they could go to high school. Some of the training you get on those schools is pretty unique and does not require a high school degree.

For example, if you're inclined to become a barber or a hairdresser, it makes no sense whatsoever to go to high school, if you can get excellent training for your dream profession at a vocational school. That has nothing to do with being lower or upper class.

As for me, I come from a family that was so poor my parents had to live by food stamps up until I was 3 years old. Not only did I go to high school, but I also went to a university and I now have a masters degree and live and work in New York City. You can't get any more lower class than I was when I started my schooling in Finland. Yet, somehow, despite grumbling on this board by some uninformed and bitter individuals, I managed to get ahead in life.

Stop complaining and DO something to improve your situation and maybe you'd start seeing things with more nuance than just "lower and upper class".

Partly correct. And partly incorrect. Its not just a different way of teaching. It is a whole philosophy and school of thought. They do teach alot of the same material and they do have a different style for teaching it. That is not the trouble with Steiner schools. The trouble is the philosophy of these institutions that claim to be imaginative and fun and nice. Alot of visual beauty and musical beauty comes out of them. They stress those things. But usually when it is too good to be true it is exactly that. Steiner schools are not healthy places for children not because of what they teach or even how they teach but more because of the philosophy of the institution. There is no child on earth you would not be doing a disservice to by placing them ina steiner school. Its like a sick cult... alot of brainwashing.... kids actually stop seeing a difference between their parents and their teacher who has been with them every day since first grade till 8th grade. I have seen students call their teachers mom without thinking.... and that is only the beginning of what i have seen. I have been considering writing a book actually of my experiences with Steiner schools and my experiences are actually NOT uncommon. this is not a healthy environment for children. And it is a shame that real schools are being shut down and the land is being sold to these Steiner schools.

I think people call Steiner schools "elitist" as thay are private and charge a tuition fee. Not much compared to some other places, but say your average Finn would be more or less "appalled" of the idea of paying, just out of principle. The "being for the retarded" is also slightly skewed. I think the reason is that according to the Steiner pedagogy ideals, the child is not "forced" to learn, but rather... hmmm.. nurtured to learn voluntarily. Ok, meaning a lazy ass kid in a "Finnish" school will be pounded the grammar in with "you learn or you cry and learn" method, but the same kid can stay lazy a few grades in the Steiner school so its again comparing apples and oranges.

Mandy,

I am sorry for your bad experiences with Steiner schools. However, they are not universal. I studied at two Steiner schools in my time, and I came out fine. One of my classmates is a member of parliament. Most of my other classmates also have good lives.

Comments on comments from the "guilty" one

Markus seems to label my contact as "local politics". Of course you can say so and it could seem like that. Yet there is the bigger picture. It's not only the city of Jyväskylä which is closing schools. And it probably is not happening only in Finland but in many western countries where the birth rates are going down. Maybe it's good to notice that we share common experiences in our every day life - at least in the western countries. And I believe that as citizens we have both the right and the duty to bring up the defects we notice. In my opinion that's the democratic way of life. The fact that I voted on an election doesn't mean I have to put up with everything the municipality politicians decide to go along with when the officials make their proposals. As long as the final decisions are not made you can try to make a contribution. But once the decisions are made you live with them and make the best of them.

The Voionmaa School has a course system, like most of the schools in Finland by now. It also has a non graded system (vuosiluokkiin sitomaton opetus, in Finnish) which is quite scarcely used in Finland. (to Johannes Munter and Maria Rapo)

KevinR asked: "Do Finns decide where to buy a house based on the school district like in the U.S.?" Yes, some do. Sometimes the criterion is that there would be A school nearby, sometimes parents want to put their children to a certain school. At this case of closing the Cygnaeus and the Voionmaa School there are families living in the area wanting their children to go to the specific school. And now they wonder which school they are finally going to... Basically the schools get the same amount of money but there are differences on the emphasis of the education. Usually in Finland the richer and poorer families are living close together and the children go to the same schools.

Some writers brought up the war times. Actually I would want us Finns to get again the feeling of getting over the financial pressures and hard times together. The way the former generations did during and after the wars. It just requires that the politicians, officials and citizens trust each other. I think it's now time to build that trust by learning to work together for the better future. We agree that savings have to be done, even of the school buildings. But this procedure could have been done in much better way. - And it still can be done in mutual understanding.

I understood that Noora Penttinen meant that parents could freely choose the comprehensive school they want their children to go to. At least in Jyväskylä the town has been divided into school districts. So, all the kids living in the same area are supposed to go the same school. You can apply to another school on another school district and if there happens to be free place you can get in there. But it's not automatic anymore, at least in Jyväskylä, though it used to be.

One point this school dispute is NOT about, is the distance of the school from home. Even though the Voionmaa School and the Cygnaeus School were closed my children would go to a school they could ride a bike or walk to in 10 - 20 minutes. Some of the kids are taking a bus much further away anyway. Were there not the non graded system I would just live this through with my children. I wouldn't take all this time trying to find out what and why has been done or what is going to be done and trying to make the decision-makers to see the concerns of the parents and the school children.

The one who is giving us political liturgy in my opinion is Tero Tilus. I think it's quite harsh letting the families and children to learn about the closing of their schools from the radio, tv or newspaper news without a slightest hint beforehand. And do that in the name of saving their future for not making them the payers of the future loans. I don't understand how the good and right or the moral and ethics of the future give anyone right to forget the good and right nor the moral and ethics of the behavior of today. And I once again want to remind Tero and everyone else that this is not about the walls but the pedagogy. So far the suggestions made have been based on euros. We expect the real decisions to be based on the quality of the educational system of the whole of Jyväskylä. So that more money can be put on the quality but not by first decreasing the quality already existing in the educational system!

To Phil: The city of Jyväskylä needs to give the premises for the private schools in the town anyway. And the Rudolf Steiner School is now placed in one of the buildings that are planned to be torn down. But yes, we don't understand why it should be done this way.

I couldn't understand where Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho bases his opinion that "the Cygnaeus School is being moved". The plans made so far mean exactly that the teachers and the pupils of both the Cygnaeus and Voionmaa School are going to be scattered to different schools of Jyväskylä. In my opinion that is closing down not moving. The communities would not exist anymore. Part of the classes, like the music ones are planned to be moved as a whole to other premises. But the school would be out.

Hopefully we all can read a happy ending story of the school spectacle of Jyväskylä from the Washington Post later. - I believe it will show the whole picture, as some writers wished. But this is a puzzle of which some pieces are still missing. Town of Jyväskylä or the decision-makers of the city are by no means "evil" or "unfair" as Miia Kyrönen pointed out. But I can't help wondering - maybe they have been a bit blinded by the euros and the speed of having to make the suggestions forgetting the very point of the education.

Sari Laine
president of the PTA of the Voionmaa School

Now I see that Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho probably meant the Cygnaeus High School. The third school that got in this mess without warning ahead.

Yes, Cygnaeus High is going to be moved - to a place further away from the other high schools than it used to be. So the collaboration with other high schools might get mor difficult. And where the facilities and rooms don't seem to fit the expectations of the standards of high school mentioned in the law...

If you live in Finland, the country with the BEST public schools in the WORLD, yet you still send your children to an expensive private school like Steiner...you are upper class. I'm sorry, I shouldn't use the word "class", I should use "income" - you are "upper income"

Interesting how this blog so far has just given nothing but praise to the government and the welfare state - yet it's the welfare state and government who has shut down this school and replaced it with a cash-hungry private school. Hmmm....

"The welfare state giveth, and the welfare state taketh away."

- Phil
http://www.finlandforthought.net

Phil, you're critizising welfare state for being too expensive and when some costs are being cut, you critizise that too?

There's no way to please you.

Sari,

Is it better to have an overextended school system now and let our children pay for their education when they have grown up, or to have more modes school system which we can pay for *now*? I hear a lot of rhetoric about "don't downsize on the future", but when the flip side is that the bill will be left for the future to pay, I don't know how much sense there is in that.

You accuse Tilus of political liturgy. It is an awfully easy way to dismiss an argument without really considering its merits.

Some of the problem is the coming structural change in our demographics: there will be a lot more elderly people and a lot less children. In the long term, that is the single biggest problem we face: the whole welfare system is in danger of collapse. However, in the near term, a lot of the municipal financial difficulties can be directly blamed on the current government and its insane tax cut policies - not just the basic idea of cutting taxes but the way they have been cut: lower the municipal taxes, straining the municipalities, who do all the financing of the schools.

Finally, Sari, if you believe that the politicians are running Jyväskylä badly, ...
I hope to see you as a candidate in 2008 municipal elections!

(Still politically active in the Jyväskylä region. Party affiliation is the Green League. I sit on some of the boards, as a primary or secondary member, though I was not involved in these schooling decisions.)

As a mother of four children , I have been very
pleased with the American school system.I like the
flexibility related to ability.I like the
extracurricular activities, debate , music, theater
etc.It is far too early to decide for the child
age 10,12 if he/she is collage material or not.

Markus - I'm not criticizing the spending cuts at all, I'm just pointing out the fact that author has done nothing but praise the welfare state, but then the welfare state has done something so "awful" as unexpectantly closing this school.

- Phil
http://www.finlandforthought.net

CORRECTION. Rector Falck read my story online and pointed out a typo; the story says that girls generally do worse in Finland than boys; of course it is the opposite, in Finland as, now, in most European and North American countries. Girls generally do better than boys, but at Falck's school, there is virtual gender equality in accmplishments. Sorry for this mistake.

To Sari:

Essentially my message was "pedagogy should be, and it has been, prioritized, not the walls", when I said

"Educational board has done good job in minimizing the effect of required budget cuts to the quality of education. [...] In this situation it would be absolute madness to keep the walls and cut the tuition."

and then you write

"And I once again want to remind Tero and everyone else that this is not about the walls but the pedagogy."

I deeply agree that informing the interest groups should have been handled better.

C'moon! (re: photo texts) If you have any common sense at all you'll certainly lock your bicycle in Jyväskylä. Personally I do not know anybody who wouldn't do that as so many bicycles are stolen every year - even the locked ones. Just try and see; even the oldest and shabbiest will disappear if unlocked.

Dear Antti,

You asked: "Is it better to have an overextended school system now and let our children pay for their education when they have grown up, or to have more modes school system which we can pay for *now*?" And I wrote: "We agree that savings have to be done, even of the school buildings." and "Were there not the non graded system I would just live this through with my children." Just in case: the Voionmaa School is not getting any more money - so running the non graded system is not any more expensive than the usual one. Nor does it require any more space.

"The political liturgy" in my opinion means that once the politicians have set their foot on one way they at the same time stop looking around for wider perspectives and keep on telling why they did what they did. The suggestion of closing these schools is based on saving money. The result should be more money and thus more quality for the education. Then, tell me, why is it reasonable to close the Voionmaa School especially when it's shown to be one of the best basic schools in Finland? How will that be in benefit of the children of Jyväskylä, now or in the future? Why is it so that when there is a need to cut the costs the sight of other values is gone, too?

Some more specific thoughts about Tero Tilus's writings:
Tero wrote: "Educational board has done good job in minimizing the effect of required budget cuts to the quality of education." That's correct; they've met the measures in euros and square meters. That was only choosing the path to go. Now there should be understanding to save the substance - the good work done at the schools; to keep the hidden knowledge and know how at work in the Jyväskylä educational system.

"One must remember that the amount of pupils in downtown Jyväskylä has come down and will continue shrinking," wrote Tero. It's good to remember that the school districts are not based on mere geography but human decisions. There was time when the children of Kortepohja and Kypärämäki for instance 'automatically' came to the Voionmaa School. Then the school districts were changed in order to keep some other schools vital. We parents do have difficulties to understand that something that was possible just a few years ago is not possible any more. Or that the same thing - reconsidering of the school districts - is not just possible but even automatical in the spring 2005 when it concerns the 1st to 6th graders but is extremely difficult concerning the 7th to 9th graders.

"Giving up buildings is a small fragment of much wider reorganization of education sector." That's exactly what I would expect now from both the politicians and the officials - to see beyond the walls to the pedagogy. Seeing the Voionmaa School case "without considering the rationale and other options is a bit" - well I wouldn't say "populistic", I'd say - stupid. And for some reason I don't see the "wider reorganization of education sector" coming. I only see decisions made in hurry and with minimum reorganization. But it's good if Tero has some further information on the subject.

And back to you, Antti. In my opinion my message was not "don't downsize on the future" meaning that closing the school buildings would mean automatically bad for the school children. Is that what you meant? I do not want to pay for the mere walls now or in the future. It's just hard for me to understand that once the savings have been met there would be no sincere desire to take the best possible options to use - within the walls left. In my opinion it's the adults' task to see that there is done as little harm as possible for the educational work and development done within those walls during the previous decades. That's what I'm appealing for. I don't think the elderly will do any better in the future if we throw away the thriving educational system developed in the Voionmaa School. Probably it's just the other way round. Go and ask them - the present and the once yet to be - they pay the taxes, too

"Finally, Sari, if you believe that the politicians are running Jyväskylä badly, I hope to see you as a candidate in 2008 municipal elections!" Well, Antti, I've seen this coming. I've just been wondering which political party would be the first one to propose. And yes, that's quite possible. - Yet I don't know if anyone would like to have a politician who can't say shortly what she's got to say...

Anyway, if I'm still here in 2008, I will remind people to check out who were the municipal politicians in the previous city council era 2001-2004. 'Cause I think they're the once who should have done something. The politicians today just do what the once before refused to do.

From mtv3 internet page:
http://www.mtv3.fi/lukiot/kunta2004.htm
(There was no results for this year yet, these are last three years, higher is better, first is last year)
Seems like they moved the worst school in town next to the vocational school - where the pupils will end up anyways as they clearly are not (Finnish) university material; to get to university in finland, in some subjects, means a year of studying to the entrance exams and paying for courses that help them study, in some subjects almost all who get in have attended such courses (so poor have to choose the subjects carefully or just not try to get in at all)

Jyväskylä

Jyväskylän lyseon lukio

28,7

28,4

28,5

Jyväskylän normaalikoulu

24,4

25,9

26,2

Voionmaan lukio

22,0

22,6

23,6

Cygnaeus-lukio

21,4

22,1

23,1

As someone living in Jyväskylä and studying in one of it's high schools, I can certainly say that there's hardly been a lack of discussion on the changes the local school system is undergoing - nor that there wouldn't be a need for change. My school, the lyseo, isn't directly affected by these changes, at least as far as I know, but the lack of money is showing in things like the amount of courses offered going down. This is precisely the core of the problem - money.

The city is already deep in debt - and is still going deeper. The school system is, naturally, rather expensive, and this problem is worsened by the rather unsatisfactory state of some of the buildings - and there are lots of schoolhouses in Jyväskylä, thanks to the large numbers of relatively small units. This, and other such problems should make the need for rationalization clear, particularly in the financial situation the city is in. In the end, everyone will benefit from it, not the least the students who can hopefully enjoy a higher standard of education on the meagre funds available.

Sari,

My "downsizing" comment was a reference to a slogan that is often repeated in these discussions. Your postings reminded me of it, though I did not intend to imply that your arguments here are of that kind.

I think we should stop arguing about this in this forum. If you want to discuss it further, you can reach me at antti-juhani@kaijanaho.info.

(BTW, I was not offering you a spot on the Green list in 2008 elections, it was just a comment about how I percieve politics as a civic responsibility:) I hope you will, if you decide to run, evaluate all the parties and find one that suits you. If we Greens are who you end up with, so much the better, of course.)

My ex-wife used to be a teacher, she told me (more than i would have liked to hear) there really are huge differences between schools;
when asked to do some presentation on some topic pupils can choose, some schools it would be things like world politics today, famous philosophers of the past etc, in some, rock bands or the differences between smoking marijuana or hash, in some, half the pupils would not bother to do anything at all.

"The city is already deep in debt - and is still going deeper."

The schools were not the reason for that. Spending on other things did certainly help, but not so much the schools.

I got my master of arts degree (Helsinki Univ.) without paying anything for the tuition, so I don't know what the other writef ^up there^ has paid for? The STUDENT UNION fees were of course paid (like $70 a year, but it included the student health care and the student ID card which grants all kinds of discounts (50% on railways) and the bi-monthly student newspaper.

As for the tuition I don't recall paying anything. And hadn't I studied in Helsinki of high living costs, I probably would've made it without a student loan ($10,000), the monthly allowance just about covered the rent.

"...you still send your children to an expensive private school like Steiner...you are upper class. I'm sorry, I shouldn't use the word "class", I should use "income" - you are "upper income""

Well, those Steiner school kids who are playing in the local youth wind orchestra here, certainly aren't any more "upper income" than any other players. Most of them have common workers as parents. Some children's mothers are "house moms" either by choice or because of the unemployment. There are single parents with relatively low income, and also kids with both parents unemployed. No different to those from public schools.

Difference is elsewhere: The Steiner school kids seem to be more creative, curious, active and open than those in public schools. On the other hand, they tend to be more restless and have shorter attention span.

And no - playing in a wind band doesn't make you a "upper income" We only have a small annual fee and a nominal rent for our instruments, so anyone who wants to play, is able to do so, no matter how rich or poor his/her parents are.

Steiner schools are not expensive in Finland, even though they are private schools. They receive state funding and parents don't pay for anything more than for a regular public school.

Prior to 1991, some Steiner schools did not get state funding. Even then, it was possible to get ones tuition waived, which was, according to my parents, in the order of 50 euros a month.

I really enjoyed reading the Finland Diary. Thank you for sharing your insights on this beautiful country. I have to confess I do not know much about this country until I met a sweet, wonderful man from Finland. His name is Teemu and he lives in Kuopio. I have yet to visit his homeland but I believe it will be a magical experience! And hearing all the positive comments on living and education, I do not mind migrating to Finland! Mina Rakastan Suomi :)

The vocationals schools of Jyväskylä have been always otside the city centre,in the outskirts of the townn. Nobody has whined about it.

Now when the college boys and girls had to move from the centre of the town to the same area what a cry!

What seems to be especially bad for the image is that the new place for Cygnaeus college is in the same area where the vocational schools are.

The kids of better families had to walk as far as the working-class kids have used to walk since decades.

Only the Finns now of which kind of ranking order of the youth it is alla about.

Three things in high schools that are really moronic:

Swedish - why in Finland kids have to study that ?
(A: They must know who is in charge.)
Religion - waste of time to study that
And new addition: psychology - think argentinians (at least as reported in media, never been there): bad economy but lots of crap talk about made-up issues of the inner self - some countries have philosophy in schools, but thinking does not hurt, only the tabloid version of thought, psychology, is a waste of time: In universities - not yet in high schools - they mistreat animals, claiming to learn about humans - in other words, they learn about mistreating humans by practising on animals

Wonder what they'll think of next ?

For freedom of choice in the language education is a quite modest and European aim. Imho. Let the market decide instead of centralized planning system in the language education.

"The vocationals schools of Jyväskylä have been always otside the city centre,in the outskirts of the townn. "
--
Actually, there has been one for a long time next to town center and the park in the middle of the town, harju.

Then there are ones that are near a lake (tuomiojärvi), not a (too) long walk from town center, the area itself is a very nice area and even the building they are moving the school they are moving, into is excellent compared to the building they are leaving. Of course, no pubs nearby as in the town center. Someone would probably make money if he/she owned one there. (not because of the schools but because there are none nearby)

"The kids of better families had to walk as far as the working-class kids have used to walk since decades."
--
No, they wont walk. Their parents will drive them to school until they get a licence themselves. Of course, some will have to use a bus.
The difference in living standards is higher than you realize.

It seems there are more cars in the lower schools' (including vocational schools) parking lots in Jyväskylä than in the university parking lots which seems a bit strange to me.

When Harju Vocational school started its functions as a Vocational School of Central-Finland it was built in the outskirts of the town in 1950's.

Viitaniemi's Vocational school was built same way in 1960's.

Funny to notice how those middle-class families whose kids go at a secondary school (lukio) consider themselves different and "cannot go" to Viitaniemi.

The premises for Cygnaus secondary school are excellent in Viitaniemi. Only obstacle is that the vocational school,reserved for the working class kids, is nearby and thus it "pollutes" the environment.

I once asked a professor who has been an exchange stipendiate and lived in an American family in the States, how the electricians and plumbers are educated in the States? He could not answer. Everything else he knew of America.

Seriously, the only things mentioning to foreigners about Jyväskylä: its near lakes, its where the rally is:
http://www.nesterallyfinland.fi/en/

"Seriously, the only things mentioning to foreigners about Jyväskylä: its near lakes, its where the rally is:
http://www.nesterallyfinland.fi/en/"

It might actually be not so bad a town for out-of-towners despite the local corrupt politics.
Only 25 percent of 25 year olds are born in town. Only 20 percent of old people are born in town. People who are born here tend to move elsewhere. So as almost everybody is from elsewhere, can be faster to meet new people than elsewhere. No jobs available though.

..and the local politics are probably corrupt because out-of-towners do not know who to vote. There is also the most students in comparison to other towns. That is also maybe the reason there is no jobs. They get them.
(From Jyväskylä kids usually go to study in Helsinki.)

I have'nt had the energy to read everything through on this page, but I must comment the original post.

I just finished with Voionmaa school, got out of there after 3 years of hard work. I managed myself through the english system that they have over at Voionmaa. It's surely a pity that it might disappear. higher people deciding on these things have been saying and confirming us that these classes won't disappear, but you never know..

It does make me said to hear, how some people from this town do think that the english speaking classes and the IB section in the highschool of Lyseo are so called "elite" places. I don't know what to say, but these things do make me sad.

I try to understand that the town must cut off some expences, but the way they have arranged all of the cut offs considering the schooling system is upsetting.

Though these arrangements won't affect me anymore, I'm keeping my thumbs up for the younger pupils that they would have this amazing school as theirs for the next comming years!

"its near lakes, its where the rally is:"
Rally = Men go together to forests to drink while seeing a passing car for a couple of seconds at a time. But that is still a heterosexual, maybe a bit red-neck happening.

Other towns they have rock-conserts this weekend, middle of vacations and holidays. Rock-concerts are conventional heteresexual things.

In Jyväskylä, Friday, there is a gay beach party
http://www.jyvaskylanseta.fi/
in town center on a lakeside beach.
There is camping-site, owned by the town, the town wants and has decided to, as in, not the tax-payers who think it should be preserved, but those in power, who get the bribes, to close and now they seem to want to get away the family visitors, there can be a bit of explaining to kids when the men appear to be interested in each other. There is a park middle of town where after midnight the men who like other men tend to meet each other. (Before midnight there is drug-users.)
On Saturday there is then some fetish party in the only university campusarea http://www.bizarreclub.fi club, middle of town. Only for the kind of people that are in other towns considered "usual" there is nothing during the weekend. Unless you consider the biggest club having a wrestler with a Swedish name as bouncer on saturday, naked. Maybe, just maybe, that is for women. Maybe not.

Complain to the President, the patron of the Jyväskylä Arts festival, that such blasphemy must stop at once !

"Jyväskylän Kesän suojelijana toimii tasavallan presidentti Tarja Halonen."

(To explain to anyone not from around here:)
http://www.answers.com/topic/tarja-halonen
(In 1980-1981 she also served as the chairman of SETA (Seksuaalinen Tasavertaisuus RY, Sexual Equality), the main gay and lesbian rights organisation in Finland.)

The arts festival itself is a tiny happening for the elite, yet costing tax-payers lots of money.

I am not complaining. The gays are gay. They are those who do not hit you claiming you are a f*cking homosexual when you ask if there is free space next to one in a pub, namely Hilupilttuu. One of the boys I went to 9th grade in Normaalikoulu next to Harju passed out on Harju with his then-girlfriend, now wife. Her jeans were not opened when they woke up. Incredibly funny for all who heard of it, he claimed to end drinking for almost a week. It was until next Friday. More gays and less countryside people to town and everything is fine.
http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=115&conference=1500000000000155&posting=22000000009375656
"Karkuunjuoksia 11.7.2005 klo 12.18
Jyväskylässä on enemmän kuin missään muualla näitä pikkukylistä ja maaltamuuttaneita juntteja väkilukuun suhteutettuna. Se näkyy kaupungin yöelämässä erittäin hyvin."

Someone complaining about the amount of countryside people who have moved into town.
What is worse is the university where everybody think it is cool to use hard drugs.
Those who go to trade school may smoke pot but they still believe their parents that booze is the drink and drugs are bad.

"The arts festival itself is a tiny happening for the elite, yet costing tax-payers lots of money."

That is the whole idea. More laughter when more money is burned.

"The gays are gay. They are those who do not hit you claiming you are a f*cking homosexual when you ask if there is "

....Not them but their boyfriends who hit. Lots live in Keltimäki and Huhtasuo as there is no reason for gays to live in the center, women will not go to bad areas unless they live there themselves and there is no hope of a better guy but gays differ. in center other inhabitants in the house will start talking in lähiö there are other things to worry about.

..quite the same as with women if you dare talk to them.. ..or can be their girlfriends, quite a lot of dykes here too, go see punainen lyhty, always some woman going several times to the private, talk to a group of women there and they can get violent for no apparent reason.

..better not talk at all to them, men or women.
..and then you hear complaints that a female has lived here 4 years and not one man has tried her:
now, for women it is always ok to talk, yet they do not: for men, can be consequences, so many choose not to, possible reward being smaller than the risk.

For women always ok - not. When they start to fight they will never like each other again.

Be a woman, try get somebodys man and she will punch you and always will remember you.

Not everybody of course is like that but the chance is there.

Every woman been attacked by another woman because the other thought the other was trying to get her man or she was in fact doing just that.

Women do come to talk and that is the most common way for a couple to meet, either briefly or for a longer time. They do not talk to all men. They select the men they talk to.

http://www.google.fi/search?hl=fi&q=atm+ytm+mat&meta=

http://groups.google.fi/groups?q=atm%20ytm%20mat&hl=fi&lr=&sa=N&tab=wg

"markkina-arvoteoria" was written by someone who most probably had enough of men whining why they so nice but have no women or was one himself - no need to explain for the americans, almost same rules apply: (finns sometimes do not get it because some of them been raised in middle-class neighborhoods and thus are unable to understand the realities of life)
rich handsome jock gets them poor ugly nerd does not.
There is one huge difference "renttu" get them too. Word means a man who is not interested in working (or even taking the easy route of taking drugs from a lähiä such as keltinmäki to town center or uni and getting 4-5 times the price for each delivery, here, a business idea that actually works for all you losers out there, I would not do it as I know I would get caught, but others have done it and never gotten caught) - but somehow still has enough money to drink in a pub 4.5 euro beers every night. Where the money comes from is a mystery to all but women do not care as 45 euros or usually more to beer a night is enough evidence of money for them.

oh,
atm=alemman tason mies, a man or a boy of a lower standard,
ytm= ylemmän tason mies / higher standard (as in money or other things that attract women)
mat= markkina-arvoteoria

PRIESTLY NGU
PC BUEA
PO BOX 547CAMEROON

Dear sir
i wish to apply in your intition as a atudent but i will like that you should send me your application form and the propectus
Dear sir i will be very happy if you will do so
from priestly ngu perwool2@yahoo.com

taking drugs from a lähiä such as keltinmäki to town center or uni and getting 4-5 times the price for each delivery, here, a business idea that actually works for all you losers out there, I would not do it as I know I would get caught, but others have done it and never gotten caught
***************************************
Better idea is to buy them from the good neighborhoods and sell them in the good neighborhoods. Profit is a lot less but:

Zero risk as good neighborhoods like to have good reputations. The amount of drugs and alcohol is higher in good neighborhoods but the amount of those who get caught is zero.

Rally = Men go together to forests to drink while seeing a passing car for a couple of seconds at a time. But that is still a heterosexual, maybe a bit red-neck happening.
---
Not nearly as red-neck as the athletics world championships: people go see someone throw a stick or a big rock (javelin etc.) - and not all are drunk, many go there to watch the cars sober, lots of kids, too, there.

'Zero risk as good'

One of the closed schools was widely known for the dope dealers who sat in their cars next to it, another for the guy who liked children standing next to it.
There's schools 1-6 grades with guys selling dope next to them in this town. Bigger towns sometimes try to limit the trade.

"Rally = Men"

Unlike all the cultural events the town loves to waste money on, the rally brings money to town, does not take it away.

When asked where people want to live, tampere comes first, jyväskylä second - two quite different towns. Tampere is a working-class town, Jyväskylä an elite-town. Still Tampere is more prosperous.

"Rally = Men"

Unlike all the cultural events the town loves to waste money on, the rally brings money to town, does not take it away.
************
Difference being, the Rally is not a socialist invention but private. In sports, too, those who are good, tend to come from the private sector.

It was the pecking-order: other schools are higher in it, so the school had to be moved and made smaller because otherwise it would have gotten a bigger building and risen in the order, as pupils can choose the schools they apply to.
(Tends to be though, in all the bigger towns in the country, those from one area go to one school, so worse-off to schools with others with less money and better-off to schools for the well-off; same happens also after high school: better off go to those schools which bring more income, those with less money, to those that bring less)

They're closing kindergartens and libraries too. (And using the money to less necessary things.)
Byebye town.

Decision to close, not about money only:
They would have had one school in the town center older than the school they closed, but higher in the pecking order, they closed the older school which was not as near the center as the school that was not closed. Probably the land beneath the not-closed one would have been worth more.

Why no story at all about the Finnish bread lines ?
They maybe have them in the U.S., too, but in E.U. they are not that common.

http://koti.kontupiste.net/mlarkovirta/pientalo.html
(In picture, largest breadline in Helsinki)

In Jyväskylä there are several churches that give out bread for the poor. For example next to the university across the next street from "ylä-ruth" and the university library there is one.

http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=115&conference=1500000000000155&posting=22000000010096413

http://www.sihteeriopisto.net/
and for local pussy

http://www.sihteeriopisto.net/oppilaat_nayta_k.php?land=FIN&city=Jyv%E4skyl%E4

There is hope yet for the town.
Before last election the school pupils were asked, if they could vote, who would they vote - the communist party was the favorite among the young.
If their parents were as progressive (are not, only three communists in town council, which means no political power), lots of the town's problems would be less.

the school pupils were asked, if they could vote, who would they vote
-
most who would have voted for the commies, will not vote at all when they are older
- the more money one has, the more voting there happens - and the well-off would not need vote at all as they are represented anyhow, because the politicians like money too

Two things the town has it good:
most students in the country (about 1/3 of population) and best buildings, scenery in the country (though by international standards, not that great) - there is lakes, there is a compact town center
Problems - the corrupt town officials, mayor etc. (In the news, they told, of new orleans, similar things, so cross new orleans with some student/university town(though this is not of a high standard like oxford/cambridge/boston) and you get the idea)

13500, the pay/month of the mayor in jyväskylä according to aamulehti (tampere newspaper)
If a room for one homeless was 135 euros, then there would be rooms for 100 homeless a month with the money.

the mayor is just a forefront, the power is in the hands of the city council

http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=115&conference=1500000000000155&posting=22000000011413555
huume
Kirjoittanut: kylä.. 25.10.2005 klo 01.03

jyväskylä on rikollisten luvattu kaupunki.sut hakataan heti kun meet kaupungille ja rahat viedään samaten.huumeita myydään yleisesti kaduilla ja poliisi ei tee mitään.pakolais jengit ryöstelee ihmisiä kuokkalassa.mutta hallituksen mielestä normaalia touhua nykyyhteis kunnassa.

--"drugtown" the promised town of criminals,
refugeegangs rob people in kuokkala (part of town, a bridge leads into it from the main town), drugs are sold commonly on streets and police does nothing, go to town, you be beaten up and money stolen

Town center is safe. The drug addicts there are not the same as those who are not in a condition to come to the town center.

Not so with all the surrounding areas (the small shopping centers out of town are to be avoided, the hypermarkets prisma/citymarket and supermarkets etc. are safe) - people do get killed when out of town center, do not remember it having happened to any foreigner though even there, probably most have not ventured to the bad places at all.

If you go to a pub, there are some to be avoided in town center as well (as are most outside it) but it is easy to tell of the clientele which ones to avoid (those with mostly 15-19 year olds are to be avoided as are those where the clientele is not well dressed).

Other things to avoid are: the taxi lines (can take 30min-2hours after 2 or 3 at night, but usually those who come from abroad live in hotels in town center so they do not go to the lines) and the lines where people wait for food outside (grills, the ones where you can eat inside, pizza, kebab and burger places and service stations are safe)

Above only applies to men. To women, all places within Jyväskylä are safe.

"The city's school bureaucracy, and other schools in town, are jealous of Voionmaa's reputation as the best middle school in Jyvaskyla."

In other words, the rich brought (and still bring) their kids to the school in town center. The poor kids went to the school most near. What happens now, the rich will have to go the most nearby school too. What it means, they (or those who most care about their kids, not all do) will have to move to town center (there still are schools, but not enough for those kids from farther away) or lohikoski.

I'm a 19-year-old girl from Jyväskylä. And I spent 13 years of my life in Jyväskylä's Rudolf Steiner school.

I feel sad about the school situation in Jyväskylä.

But when I read this article by Mr Kaiser I jumped on my seat when he mentioned Steiner. I just knew this article would get inaccurate comment's about my school..

So:

Hitler closed Steiner-schools, because THEY were considered too "free", they were even named Free Waldorf schools.

Children can accidentally call other people than their mothers "moms". Maybe I called my teatcher mom, cannot remember, but of course knew she was not. I definitely called my neighbour my spare-mother.

I don't consider our school as an elite school. The money some people give our school is that 100 euros a year. It was used for a long time to shorten the dept our school had to take when the state didn't support us. My mother, who is just a postman didn't pay it in my last years. It was no big deal. I don't feel I got treated badly because of it.

When high school starts and new student's come in, they are asked about their motivation and their certificates, but no certain number limit exists in Steiner. Every application is considered.

We didn't have a television per class as many other schools in Jyväskylä. The school moved five times during my schoolyears. I just hope that this new building becomes a lasting one.

It isn't fair to say that Steiner-students are "more open" or "poorly concentrated" or what ever. We are all individuals. And our teatchers aren't perfect as they are just people. I try to be a good person and that's it. I think I have a great memory and concentration skills, though I am also free-minded and a bit childish.

I think that Steiner schools have something good to offer. That's why they exist (with their little bit different kind of curriculum).
My teachers never tried to teach me Steiner's thoughts (some of them hardly knew anything). I was supposed to learn to think and search information on my own if I was interested.

Some things we have in Steiner, the state schools are now copying. Like written reviews on students.
I think it takes a lot from teachers to know their pupils so throughly they can write them (they are long, I assure you!). It's easy to put a number on the paper.

I'm a happy Steiner-child. So when I hear negative comments, I react to them.

Studying Japanology in Vaasa (under Stockholm's University).
Aino

Hmm.. In Finland grades are marked as numbers.

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