Ok..it's all Nokia. Sometimes I think that's all Finland is about. And it makes me sick. There must still be some values beyond the allmighty high-tech hype going on...Some of us still believe, that you can be happy without all the latest technology and not-so-necessary things your mobile phone can do...I think we Finns are forgetting how to live,everything must be here just now and we want it all...It's so sad, but:"Kikkeliskokkelis,mitäs läksit!"

I would guess that the name in the image caption should read Juha-Pekka Tolvanen.

I think that guy in that photo is Juha-Pekka Tolvanen.

Yes, I am Juhapekka Tolvanen and sometimes someone confuses one of us with the other one, because we have almost same names.

Visit any library in Finland and you´ll understand why ordinary Finns borrow (and read) remarkably more books from libraries than in any other country.

A.M. Makela

Hey let's be honest, Nokia is what put Finland on the map!

Nokia's share of the Finnish GDP is 3.5% in 2004 and accounted for almost a quarter of Finnish exports in 2003.

About 23,700 people are employed by Nokia in Finland which is roughly 2% of the people in the Finnish business sector - and that doesn't include the thousands who work for Nokia as a consultant or 3rd party vendor in Finland. There are entire companies in Finland which are dependent on Nokia, if Nokia disappeared one day, they would too.

Finland couldn't live without Nokia.

- Phil
http://www.finlandforthought.net

Why has our great leader Urho Kekkonen not been mentioned yet? He was a man of great wisdom and genius and he lead the country for 25 decisive years (1956-1981). It was his vision and planning that made our prosperity possible. Without him there would be no Nokia, indeed, no independent nation called Finland at all. He walked the tightrope during the perilous cold war years and saved the nation. He was one of the greatest statesmen of the 20th century. His name is on our lips as we go about our daily lives.

There is nothing wrong with being honest here. Finns differ from others in at least one major way. Here in Finland "Real Finns" have Nokia cellphones, maybe a few of them, and the owners/users of other "brand" cellphones are considered "unfinnish". We support our little Nokia just like everyone else, everywhere in the world, support their own. Nothing wrong with that. If Chevy was a finnish car w'd all drive one. That is .. those of us who prefer to drive.

Phil dear,
Nokia did not put Finland on the map; Finland still is not on the map. And I don't think it should be...
Let's keep this country a secret, OK?

Rather to have a Nokia put us on the map than a war...like in 1939.

Right?

Thats right what Olli say. If we compere other European contries they are supporting their own, so much that it hurts the market, for example an Roman.Perlykoni, a mafioso, who ain´t shame for nothing.
On the other Finns supports firms with their base in other countries example AkerFinnYards, Norweigian company with lots of foreign workers and Finnish goverment support with 8% of every newbuilded ship. Spain have a lots of finnish pensionist who get their pension from Finland, but don´t pay any taxes.
your story is looking far too short time back, because if we use the values of to day and look for 50 years back, the wood- industry have been the biggest branch, for a long time. So if you want to write a true article of Finland, you have to live there, not only visit for a couple of months.The shadow You must see is very long and winding.

Pfffttt... everything is made somewhere else. There is no "Finnish Products" any more. It might have a brand on it that used to be Finnish, but its made somewhere else. If I wanted to drive a "Finnish Car" what would I be driving? A Porsche Boxter? Yes, made in Finland. With Finnish salaries? Hahahahahaha

The Finland-Nokia relationship is very complicated and also interesting. The story doesn't do much but scratch the surface. Sure Nokia drives the Finnish economy and In one respect, it is never good to have all your eggs in on basket. However, I think if you gave any small country a choice, they would gladly play host to Nokia!

"His name is on our lips as we go about our daily lives."

Are you for real?

Yes, Nokia is an important part of the Finnish economy but I believe only part of the story of the modern Finnish economy. You must explain more of Finlands past. For example it`s relatoinship to the former Soviet Union and how that impacted the economy of Finland. Also, please mention in one of your future articles, Finlands policy in regards to nuclear power.

Nokia über alles.

Hi. A few notes on the cultural input of the goverment in Finland. In a country that has roughly the same population as in greater Philly there are 38 publicly funded theaters and dozens of others. Over 1000[sic] museums, a very good cover of public librarys, nearly 80 music academys, 12 symphony orchestras, over 3000 choirs and so on... This would be a long list.

All this has a huge impact on what defines a Finn, if there where an average Finn. All that is a major factor to the innovation and progressive way of thinking and adapting to a rapidly changing world.

I trust that You'll be digging into that side of Finland as well.

Reporters visiting in tampere city on sunday?

TAMPERE CITY IS AWESOME PLACE!!!!

The Nokia phenomenon is quite frankly beginning to ride my nerves. I believe it is time Finland begins to focus on something else and expand to other sectors, not just blindly depending on Nokia. Considering the extreme paranoia in terms of economy, this could result in a massive catastrophe unless steps are taken to branch out instead of solely depending on Nokia.

Quoting labbai "I think we Finns are forgetting how to live,everything must be here just now and we want it all..." I agree with you on this, I find myself lost in amazement everytime a new mobile is launched, it strays away from the main concept. Soon we will be wondering what the original purpose of the mobile was, the first signs are already depicting this.

Yes, keep up amusing the readers all over the world.....

Remember Nokia city

http://www.nokiankaupunki.fi/

The key to understand Finnish capability to adapt things and change is in history. Through the centuries Finns had to find the way to survive, first over 600 years under Swedish ruling and then over 100 years under the Russians. After all this Finns had to learn how to decide things
all by themselves, when it was time for the independency. As a bonus there was a
hard war against the Russians during the WW2. Finland was on map and stayed there.

All this without loosing Finnish language,
culture nor identity. We are still here
and going strong!
Thank you!

City of Nokia may boast about the original location of Nokia factory, but the company however was founded in Helsinki. The investors gathered in the home of senator Leo Mechelin to sign the agreement for the new limited company.

Mitä tarkoittaa "Kikkeliskokkelis,mitäs läksit"?

Kiitos.

Nokia is important, but so is Marimekko, Rapala, Vaisala, Suunto, UPM etc, which are partly seen as global companies also. So , please don't under- or overstimate things. And as in the beginning of the whole trip the historical struggles are important, as culture, sports and whatever ;-) I think one strength of Finland is that there are so many aspects were to excel. Not the quantity but the quality...

Secret operation of CIA in Finland.
Terrorism in the world is produced of CIA
and the jewish masonlogia of Manhattan
Kissinger Henry and Kofi Annan are greatest gangsters of our planet
www.tiedonantaja.fi
Finnish Communist Party.

Lo and behold, here come the trolls. And without any ability to spell words correctly... *sigh*

Didn't you think today's post was just... well... slightly boring? Come on Robert, you can do better than that. Were all the people in Jyväskylä hiding from you? Today you lost the nice personal touch you had had before. Let's face it, there have been quite enough Nokia commercials in international newspapers, was it really necessary to stick to the same viewpoint as everyone else?

*Now yer gonna be angry with me ;)*

>>Mitä tarkoittaa "Kikkeliskokkelis,mitäs läksit"?

It means someone has and someone hasn't watched Aake Kalliala & Pirkka-Pekka Petelius... joten ystävälliseen sävyyn tietenkin rouva on hyvä ja kertoo. Nam!

some nutty people here ....

I think people here shoudl realize couple of things

(1) This is a blog organized by Washington post and the language therefore is English. You are not being very diplomatic with comments in Finnish-language.

(2) With your Swedish language comments all over, you are again allowing Swedish take over a great platform that was originally meant to boost the image of Finland.

And like I said, some really nutty people here, within Finland and abroad. It is sad to see what kind of people Finland puts out these days.

I live on the east coast of the US and I drive a 94 SAAB convertible--made in Finland--and I still love it. I believe it was built or painted, at least, in the same factory as the Porsche Boxter. It's has many features on it that weren't added to "mainstream" cars until recently.

Speaking of Finland, I was wondering why Suomi is such a popular name for the country. How did that evolve and will it ever be the actual name of Finland? I see it on furniture-building instruction pages from IKEA. My dad, Eero, used to call it that and when I asked him why, he'd just say "because."

Well, because it is the actual name of Finland, silly.

Germany is Deutschland, in German
Wales is Cymraeig, in Welsh
Ireland is Eire, in Irish
Netherlands is Niederlands, in Dutch
Japan is Nippon, in Japanese

Suomi is the name of the country in Finnish.

Oh, and we have names for other countries as well, so Sweden is Ruotsi and Germany is Saksa. And America is "Jenkkilä" ;)

Of the origin of the name there is a few theories, but its obscured in prehistory. The origin of the name was the area around Turku and other areas had tribes with other names.

it isn't anything strange that people A from place X call people B from place Y with a name Z, even the name Z is from people C. it depends a lot of who contacted whom first; and who wrote the maps.

So Germany - latin germania - land of the germans (one tribe) - is in French Allemagne, land of the allemans (another tribe) - and Finnish Saksa - land of the saxons... not so very rude compared to calling someone nemets (german) in Russian meaning "guys who speak funny"...

So the same logic calling the country with people you met first applies to calling USA colloquially "Jenkkilä" and a person "Jenkki"... blame the Yankees. ;)

A peculiarity of naming; we call the Baltic Sea (borrowed to English from Latin IIRC) "Itämeri" the Swedes "Östersjön". Ok, the sea is East of Sweden and West of Finland (so its a direct translation). However the Estonians actually looked at the directions annd call it the "Läänemeri" -'Western Sea' because it is to the west of them...

oops, missed a line from there, 'Itämeri' means "Eastern Sea, so the name is a direct translation from the Swedish even the sea is located West of Finland...

The building in the picture 8 of the latest photos is not the town hall of Jyväskylä. It is a town hall of Jyväskylä's neighbour Säynätsalo. It is designed by the great Alvar Aalto though.

It just happens to be so, that all the "major" languages in the world have taken the Swedish name into use. So Suomi is Finland in Swedish, English, etc. and Finnland in German and Danish. At least our neighbours are on our side and call Suomi Soome. The Estonians you see.

"The building in the picture 8 of the latest photos is not the town hall of Jyväskylä. It is a town hall of Jyväskylä's neighbour Säynätsalo. It is designed by the great Alvar Aalto though."

Well, nowadays Säynätsalo is a part of Jyväskylä and that house is no more used as a town hall. But it is still called the Säynätsalo town hall, which was designed, of course, by Alvar Aalto.

Also the major buildings of Jyväskylä University are designed by Aalto.

This messsage is to Americans:

Did you know we use here Windows -operating system, too?

"Speaking of Finland, I was wondering why Suomi is such a popular name for the country. How did that evolve and will it ever be the actual name of Finland? I see it on furniture-building instruction pages from IKEA. My dad, Eero, used to call it that and when I asked him why, he'd just say "because.""

Suomi IS the name of Finland is Finnish, that is why ;)
I sincerely hope your father was lazy and tried to avoid a lengthy explnation of the word Suomi.

Continuing with Hank W, it is true that in Finland we have a few oddities when it comes to geographical naming, but they still are clear and cause no difficulty. Same applies to the word "Venäjä", which means Russia is very different from the other Indo-European languages, then again it is what one would expect from a language that has very little relation to that language family or group.

I'm fairly young,not even close to middle age yet, and I still think of wellington boots (rubber) when hearing the word Nokia. This despite always having had Nokia mobile phones.

Nokia (Nokian jalkineet = Nokia footwear?) is still the name of a rubber boot factory, somewhere near Tampere, I think. Excellent boots. Your journalists should get themselves a pair each as souvenirs from their trip.

We're very aware of Nokia's importence economically, but to say we define ourselves via that particular company is wrong. I suspect that if you asked a Finn to describe ourselves in a few short words other stuff would be far more vital.

We'd talk about our nature, open for everyone to roam in, clean locally produced food, curiosity about the outside world while still being firmly rooted at home. We'd of course bring up the sauna, and being comfortable in and with our bodies. Things like that.

Companies come and go. What I mentiones above stays from generation to generation.

Let's not forget the humble roots of Nokia Corporation. They started here where I now live in the town of Nokia near Tampere where you have visited or will do so soon.

Nokia company started off as a tissue paper factory and still exists but was bought by Georgia Pacific a few years ago. It lies quietly in a valley near the rapids which help power production. This sleepy town of about 30 000 seems of no consequence but as you walk around the market place looking at ordinary working class people it is hard to imagine that some of them are multi millionnaires having bought Nokia stock way back in the seventies and prudently put them in the top draw hardly aware that the shares were splitting on a regular basis as the fledgling Nokia Telecommunications company starting going through the roof.

Brian Joyce
Nokia Town

There cannot possibly be anything more boring than nokia. The bit about dancing was more entertaining.
Younger Finns however often listen to heavy metal- kind of music (in jyväskylä, three bars play it, only one plays tango-like dance music: http://www.jyvashovi.fi ) and rap (pretty awful local bands there are) - my favourite local band or artist would be Lab, not heavy metal at all)
Some lyrics also mention travelling, such as irwin goodman's "st. pauli ja reeperbahn" , eppu normaali "vuonna 85" "täällä kukkaloistossa amsterdamin" (here in amsterdam with the flowers) (also famously mentioned by one of the hanoi rocks members on tv, "i'd rather live in amsterdam by selling my perse (naughty word for ones behind) than live in finland", to which half the nation wholoheartedly agreed to.

http://www.viihdekeskus.fi
http://www.viihdekeskus.fi/index.cgi?action=arkisto&RYHMA=2&ID=83

There is a good time to learn how to dance while in Finland. (Previous story about visiting joensuu) For example line dancing so can continue back home ;)
http://www.google.fi/search?hl=fi&q=line+dance+kurssit&meta=

and since theyre visiting tampere, theres also juice's eesti, a song about longing to estonia
(lyrics:)
http://www.lyricsbox.com/juice-leskinen-lyrics-eesti-on-my-mind-dgp5z4p.html

wisdom you earn...stupidity, well.how stupid you can get. Still we are under the soviet union of the russian thread.

You, who acclaimed that no nokia mobile phones are made in Finland, you´re totally wrong! There´s quite a few people working for manifacturing mobiles in Finland!!!

But I thought Nokia was a Japanese company... ;)

Heh, if asked 20 years ago what Nokia does, I'd said Winter tyres and rubber boots.... maybe with a little coaxing rubberized cables and telephone switch boxes... They did computers at one time too, was the first real one I saw in school, "Nokia Mikromikko"...

28 orchestras that receive public funding. Granted, some of them not 100-member full symphonies, but chamber orchestras. Still. An amazing figure for "a country that has roughly the same population as in greater Philly".

Amazing.

"Did you know we use here Windows -operating system, too?"

Maybe you do, but thank god, many of us don't.

"Jura-Pekka Tolbanen" LOL xDD

It is not iisi, juu nou. Not iisi ät ooll.

Why not a word...
European baseball was developed in Jyväskylä by Tahko Pihkala. It is much faster than its American version also based on old European ball-games.

In addition Jyväskylä has lots of firsts in Finland:

-First college for boys were the language of instruction was Finnish the year 1858.
-First teacher seminar were the language of instruction was Finnish the year1863
-First college for the girls were the language of instruction was Finnish the year 1864.
-First song festival in Finnish the year 1884
-Finland's oldest daily newspaper in Finnish language, Keskisuomalainen,still going strong
-first town were the meetings and documents were excecuted in Finnish

And I'm sure the Americans in the audience would like to know that Wilson tennis raquets are Finnish as is Salomon. They're all owned by Amer, which used to be a tabacco company that no longer sells tobacco.

I should say that the concerns about the demise of Nokia are a little premature. They are more or less holding their market share worldwide, their markets are very widely spread and the markets are increasing dramatically with the rise of China and India. Indeed, it is predicted that China will supercede the US as Nokia's biggest market quite soon.

Additionally, I feel that Finland is becoming a bit more entrepreneurial. It's very straightforward to start a company here and the benefits for entrepreneurs are pretty good (6 months benefits, 50% tax relief on pensions for 3 years). Plus, the markets around us are quite exciting. The new EU states are nearby and offer great opportunities and Russia is next door. They are looking at building a new high speed train link to St Petersberg from Helsinki (St petersburgs population is about the same as Finlands).

Finland is very well-placed economically. We're all going to suffer when US has its "correction" because of the budget and trade deficits, but Finland is going to suffer less than most and will bounce back quickest.

Here in Finland "Real Finns" have Nokia cellphones, maybe a few of them, and the owners/users of other "brand" cellphones are considered "unfinnish".
--
Thats a first. If Finns cared about where things came from, why would they continue to be customers of Nordea, (originally Merita, the bank with a huge market share that was socialized by the state of sweden) or continue to buy Leaf candy, once Finnish ?

"In addition Jyväskylä has lots of firsts in Finland:"

And the mayor which gets more money than anywhere else in Finland ! More than in many other countries they would dare to pay in towns the size of Jyväskylä ( 83 000 people) or much bigger ones, 11500 euros a months (plus some other things)
..and the worst budget of any town in the country.

yet people are moving to the town, more of them than to any other town

"Pfffttt... everything is made somewhere else. There is no "Finnish
Products" any more"

"Nokia is important, but so is Marimekko, Rapala, Vaisala, Suunto, UPM
etc, which are partly seen as global companies also."

In my opinion, if one want's to see what's in store for the future when
it comes to innovation in Finland, one should look up emerging startup
companies and not established global operators who deserve recognition
for their merits, but do not represent the enterprising spirit of this
country any more, having grown beyond its borders and often changed
ownership from finnish hands to foreign investors portfolios. Small
innovative companies with their hands on the pulse of tomorrow such as
these:

www.plenware.fi
www.eks.fi
www.novintel.com
www.netsol.fi
www.exel.net

"And the mayor which gets more money than anywhere else in Finland !"

Also known for the former mayor who drank a bit too much. That was never told in the media but people could see the red nose. So they unlawfully paid 200000 euros of tax-payers money to him to get out of the job. That became known in the whole country.
Nothing special there. Mayors often are like that.

"In my opinion, if one want's to see what's in store for the future when
it comes to innovation in Finland, one should look up emerging startup
companies and not established global operators who deserve recognition
for their merits, "

Talk to any student, Nokia is not their favorite employer-to-be. Despite the stories in media about the opposite being true.

That became known in the whole country.
Nothing special there. Mayors often are like that.
-
The Finnish or more like Nordic system also means that when tax-payers money is wasted and someone gets caught with it there is no consequences for anyone involved.

The town is number 1 among "big towns" (ten biggest towns in the country: the smaller are worse mostly but there is no real statistics for them) in drug-related overdose deaths and violence, number two in unemployment.

All because of the corruptness which the local communists try to to tell to locals with papers which say "kaupunki on kiero" and
"Moving out of nokias's shadow" is not the right thing to say. Right would be "the town to stay away from"

http://netlari.econnection.fi/forum/forum.php?viesti=119732&sana=

"Ei vitsi
19.05.2005
17:29:49

Toverit, jakakaa kiväärit !
Jyväskylässä on porvarienemmistö ja talous päin prinkkalaa,
muualta maasta on varmaan muuttanut keskustalaisia jotka kaupungissa
äänestävät tukipuoluetta. Ovat jaelleet kaupungille lappusia joita
ovat liimailleet lyhtypylväisiin tekstillä että kaupunki kiero ja
allaoleva nettilinkki niissä on mainittuna. Niin se on ja jos tässä
kaupungissa johonkin puolueeseen liittyisin, liittyisin kommunistiseen
puolueeseen, vaikka olenkin sekä kommunisteja, demareita että
fasisteja vastaan. Ja jos olisin äänestänyt, olisin äänestänytkin
heitä.
http://www.turpaanporvareille.net/
"

I voted for the communists. Not because they were the best choice, it was the only choice as they are out of the power circle of corruptness. All should vote them.

http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=115&conference=1500000000000155&posting=22000000009395975
"parempia ovat": better towns
"huonompia" = worse towns
http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=115&conference=1500000000000155&posting=22000000009352403
Someone tells what thinks of the local newspaper. Shortly = sucks up the local politicians is probably part of the corruptness. I do not know about that as I do not read newspapers that much but think it is possible.

Hat-trick, Jyväskylä-style:

of the 'bigger' towns:

highest unemployment, worst economy, best paid mayor (someone counted, gets more than the one in san francisco or the one in new york would get if he took his pay)

+ most drug-deaths, most violence (according to latest statistics)

isn't corruption great ?

Jyväskylä has in reality had higher unemployment than Lahti or Pori, (number 3 and 2) for years despite yesterday's rise in statistics, too, to the first place: the other towns have a lot less students and the students in Jyväskylä study subjects that do not instantly give work so they stay as students by keeping purposedly a course or two not completed. Maybe average is about a year. Mine was two.

So there are lots of more unemployed than the statistics reveal. Maybe about 2000 (my guess).
Finish studies but have no work = employers will not employ you so it is better to stay as a student as long as possible. The student allowance is about the same as the employment money as well for many and many do not want to go to the humiliating employment office and social office.

highest unemployment, worst economy, best paid mayor (someone counted, gets more than the one in san francisco or the one in new york would get if he took his pay)

+ most drug-deaths, most violence
***********
Reason for all: the town has most students per capita.
University students - not all obviously - love drugs and violence. They are above the law too, police does not touch those more educated or in higher social standing than themselves.
When they graduate some took enough of them not to bother to move elsewhere despite there being work for all in other towns. One small town cannot absorb all the graduates naturally but university students are lazy: less than half a year of going to university in a year, mostly couple of hours a week.
The elitist snobbery means some of the politicians are similar too: Jyväskylä has high spending in culture but people who live in trash cans the winters and outside in the woods the summers are not cared about in the least. The university system in Finland is more elitist than most of western europe: students get grants + lots of money from parents. So those out of work but from university would be working if they wanted to. But too much to ask, to move to other town - Helsinki- for work.

Another reason: small town mentality in the local media (one newspaper, one free paper, both owned by same company)
- no negative things can be said usually at all, when can be they find some "easy" reason which usually has nothing to do with the real reasons behinds things, total one-sidedness - maybe comes from the fact the journalists too are from the local university. So no negative comments about the principal of the local university, either. (She acts like she looks like, enough said.)

Lack of discussion and hiding the problems = lack of solutions for problems.
In the extremely rare case discussion exists, those who have the problems are left out and all kinds of "experts" cash in - and find no solution.

Long term solution is easy:
The local university affects things a lot. Problem is there is too many
women compared to men. No men = things go bad, drugs, too much spending
on culture (the rally brings money, culture uses it) - there are men
but for the women in university non-educated men are a no-no. The
amount of women = men in power do as they want things to go like.
In Lapland there is a university in Rovaniemi, but no women, same in lappeenranta, a
technical university but no women. So swap: local university faculties
"humanistinen" and "yhteiskunnallinen" to lapland law school and
lappeenranta technical and them here.
It is only a long term solution but a working one.
They get women. To Jyväskylä politics comes some sense.

Another solution:

Finland is a kindergarten-state where all under 25 must study or lose
benefits. State pays to study, expects nothing in return for the free /
paid education: force the students move to look for work where work is,
be it Helsinki or a small town, after 6 months of graduation or have to
pay for full cost of their education.

Another: Stop the silly policy of all having to study, which means such
who have no motivation go to schools to spend time in and with taxes
make sure most move out of home when they are 16 years old: more taxes
to parents of kids still at home, less if they left, maybe then they
would grow up in time instead of being small children at the age of 29
when they graduate.

As a New Zealander, who exports laboratory equipment to your coutry, finland, I am fascinated and extremely impressed with you as a nation. I'm currently doing a masters degree in ICT and you guessed it- Nokia and Finland are a big subject. Try looking at earth.google .com but you need a fast internet connection. This sight will show you where I live in Christchurch New Zealand.
Your Finnish history is amazing.We played your national anthem, Finlandia in a brass band I belong to here. You should be proud of yourselves Finns!

New Zealand ? Isnt that the nation that has lots of sheep ? And profitable agriculture ? If things were right, we'd eat good cheap imported-lamb meat kebap here, instead of expensive stuff the local agriculture makes :)

Jyväskylä, the town the story tells about, has two faces:
Locals - except the richest and the poorest, move away, to make way for those who move in.
The richest stay as the town has a nice location and the rich feel no cold, big cars, garages: the poor cannot afford to move: they have to stay.
Those who move in, some move to work, all is okay. Some to study, they are those with money but no brains as the local university is not the greatest. - Locals move to study elsewhere, usually in Helsinki.
So the moving-in-students come here and alas find no work which is the reason for the town's problems. Not one local politician has realized that.

In Finnish, about Jyväskylä (probably started by someone who came to town to study and got disappointed by it):

http://netlari.econnection.fi/forum/forum.php?viesti=119732&sana=

Seems it is being censored: tell the truth and it will disappear.
There was a joke about the police, not there anymore.

Why speed costs 15 euros in Lahti and only 10 euros in Jyväskylä ?
- For Rogues Gallery (a gang in Lahti) it is not allowed to break the law, for the Police it is.

Why was (the law changed so that) the police (is) allowed to break the law ?
- Because it was embarrassing for them when they stole from their own association and from the drunk cell in the station and got caught and someone told about it to the outside.

(they did not catch the guy who made a burglary into the station, though that was long ago now)
----What did not disappear:
Why did someone make a proposal in the city council that the town should follow the law ?
- Because it was a joke.
(They probably did not get it, that is why it did not disappear, as you can understand it two ways: either the joke is that it is not meant to be taken seriously or the joke is they won't follow it anyhow.)

Mtv 3, the swedish-owned tv-channel, told, in Jyväskylä+mlk, about 10 percent of all people visited the breadlines (free food give-aways for the poor, I did not qualify when I went there, had no money but should have had (didnt) income, so had to go steal from a shop once) during last year at least once, many do it every time there is one. - Jyväskylä is not the worst town, there are many that are much worse. In what other countries of western europe it is like that ?

http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=115&conference=1500000000000155&posting=22000000010251314
(About the breadline)

It is not really fair to call the town violent and such. It is not the whole truth. Such affects only the worse-off people: Those who go to the university and all travellers (including the numerous rally fans and people working in the teams, who are said to have voted the local rally the best one of the series a couple of years in a row) as well as the local well-off are perfectly safe. Probably not one foreigner ever been killed in the town (as is the case with most Finnish towns) - nobody has anything against foreigners or the rich - the poor are the ones who are not liked (that is the same in all of the country, too.)

Nokias are über things. Sorri about my bad england

They are phones among others, they do teir job. Everybody has an opinion. Heh, I've been in Nokia. It sounds like Japanese but it really is a small town in Southern Finland. The Nokia company is originated from there. The first well known products were rubber boots and tyres somewhere in the beginning of 20th century, but later the company sold that part away and concentrated on mobiles and high-tech. It would be a miracle if some future wiseguy didn't have comment on this after me. Let's change the subject. Who cares anyway.

Nokia on the map:
http://www.karttatiimi.fi/nokia/map.php

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